what do you think is the possibility and probability of ending affirmative action in education? >> well, i hope very good. my law firm brought the case gebs the -- against the university of michigan and law school. we brought that original case ten years ago, won against the law school, lost against undergrads because of sandra day o'connor who says we need 25 more years of affirmative action. now we have constitutional provisions with expiration dates. [laughter] there's -- there's -- an interesting book called "mismatched" by two liberals making the argument with empirical evidence that affirmative action is harmful to black people. what a surprise. liberals try to help, ruin black people's lives. that's the story of the book. their argument is by if it's a little bit of affirmative action, not bad, but elevating people to schools they are not ready for and where everyone else has higher scores, they get discouraged, depressed, feel stupid, drop out, easy subjects. one way liberals brushed the sad results of affirmative action under the rug is all the black studies courses whi